Why on earth do we have to have protests like the ones going on recently? The reason lies in a pretty dire political process that has long since failed to modernise and be representative. Yet, in the meantime, we expose front-line police officers to what can only be thought of as abuse. This will surely get worse if other people start to protest or riot.
The protests barely bring the real issues to the fore, and police prevent the anger and bitterness reaching its real mark, presumably Parliament. Without disorder, it seems the media can’t get interested. Democracy should not need to be defended like this on either side. One would expect the violence to escalate once the private sector cavalry don’t show up and unemployment grows amidst claims of recovery.
Our police have already given up other streets and problems faced by many ordinary people, and one wonders why they are now protecting our worthless politicians, though the power reasons are obvious – they are serving the masters. I find it particularly appalling that we should attack our police in the UK, or that we should face mounted attacks, kettling and batons (though it is hard not to justify the police actions). The question is why reasoned ‘attack’ cannot be made, from anti-social behaviour to a culture in which we feel our views are understood and more directly represented. Not much comfort to either a poor cop facing projectiles, or an innocent bystander.
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“Without disorder, it seems the media can’t get interested. “
Remember the MSM motto: ‘If it bleeds, it leads’
As a profound beliver and advocate of PEACE, I’m afraid I agree with your quotation. We now live in an oligarchy where politicians and the media conspire to shut down dissent and only consider what serves their own interests.
The police have gone too far this time though. Next thing the parents of the students will be on the street. My son was ridden down by a police horse and smashed over the head with a baton on Thursday while he was trying to protect a group of children as young as eight. I will not stand for it.
http://peterreynolds.wordpress.com/2010/12/11/vile-police-website-reveals-violent-conspiracy/
“I will not stand for it.”
You’ll be keeping him home from any further ‘protests’ then? Good man!
So Julia, you want to prevent protests do you? If so, that says everything about you that needs to be said.
Protests are fine, have as many of ’em as you like. I’ve even been on a few myself.
But what we see here are not protests, they are riots organised and controlled by the hard left, and the cannon-fodder for them, as always, are useful idiots like your son.
“useful idiots like your son”
What on earth gives you any right, basis or even vague justification for such a ridiculous insult? You demean yourself and your argument by such a worthless remark. Grow up for God’s sake. You’re guilty in words of much the same puerile behaviour as causes the trouble on the streets.
Do you think he wan idiot for trrying to defend young children in the face of a cavalry charge? Anyway, he’s far from an idiot. He’s a newly qualified lawyer.
I think you are right that there is an element of planning and organisation by the hard left. Once again though, when you say “control” you go completely over the top and diminish your own argument.
The real problem here is that the police’s incompetent mangement of the protest plays straight into the anarchists’ hands. Kettlling is a crazy idea. How long is it going to take the dumb coppers in charge to realise that?
The police are there to FACILITATE legitimate protest, not divert, stifle or repress it. Passions are high here because this government has crushed dissent and democracy. Ministers are more remote in their ivory towers than ever in our history. The media governs the news agenda in an entirely self-serving way. I despair of but have great sympathy with the idea that without disorder tthere is no coverage of protest. The editors of our national newspapers have blood on their hands.
It may surprise you to know that I speak as a Tory and someone who thinks the tuiition fee proposals are entirely fair and reasonable. I think the LibDem ministers should be expelled from parliament though for breaking a written agreement..
I support police efforts to identify troublemakers and the police officers in normal uniform seen protecting Prince Charles should get a medal. There are other officers who should be going to jail.
“You’re guilty in words of much the same puerile behaviour as causes the trouble on the streets.”
I’d attempt to answer that, but for the life of me, I can’t parse it into coherent English…
The reason I refer to your son as a ‘useful idiot’ should be immediately apparent to an educated man, but I’ll simplify it for you – of all the rioters nursing cracked skills and bruised limbs today, do you think any of them are the union rabble-rousers and hardcore ‘anarchists’ who were whipping up the crowd on the day? And no, that’s not easily dismissed as ‘right-wing conspiracy theories’, I take that straight from the pages of the ‘Guardian’…
So you may want to pause and reflect why.
If you can’t parse it, maybe it’s you who needs to pause.
While you’re about it you might want to try reining in your offensively patronising manner. It’s in the basic training manual for traffic cops I know, but it won’t get you anywhere when you’re on a level playing field.
Who said anything about right wing conspiracy theories? I’m proud to be a right winger myself. It stands for individual freedom, liberty, small government, the presumption of innocence, etc, etc.
” Kettlling is a crazy idea. How long is it going to take the dumb coppers in charge to realise that?”
What other choice do they have? People like you wet your knickers over tear-gas, rubber bullets or water-cannon. So what are they supposed to use, harsh language?
Well that’s the problem isn’t it. The police are supposed to be the professionals, yet they’re empty of ideas except those that actually make things worse.
I would like to see the army brought in. They are properly trained. They have integrity and know how to exercise restraint. They also have the courage to go in and get the troublemakers. Far too many of the police are bully boy cowards, eager to crack heads but scared of doing any real work.
As for wetting knickers, why can’t you be polite?
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I honestly don’t know whether these proposals are fair, but clearly someone has to pay. My regrets on the treatment of your son Peter. The cops rarely seem to stop the actual criminality and come down on people genuinely protesting. We know its a hard job, but enough bad on all sides is happening to suggest we need structural change.
What sort of ‘structural change’ would you like to see? And do you mean of the police, or of society?
“While you’re about it you might want to try reining in your offensively patronising manner. It’s in the basic training manual for traffic cops I know, but it won’t get you anywhere when you’re on a level playing field.”
You think I’m in training to be a traffic cop? Sounds like you might have a few problems with your driving, to make such a bizarrely Freudian suggestion!
As for your comment about bringing in the army for violent civil disorder, 1) they aren’t trained for it, 2) it would be considered a total failure on the part of the government ( may even bring it down, who knows?) and 3) remember Bloody Sunday?
I don’t make any assumptions about you Julia.
I don’t think you really want to get into comparing the army’s few mistakes with the police’s hundreds. Bloody Sunday was one dreadful incident.
I think the army would be far better trained and equipped to sort out a few troublemakers and stop a protest turning into “violent civil disorder”. It only ever became that because of the incompetence and inadequate training of the police.
I would like to apologise for a few people I accidentally knocked the stuffing out of during my time in the Met. One in particular was on Feb 5th 1872 at the bottom of Downing Street. I was in danger of being over-run by a savage mob, I drew my stick and wellied this big chap who was lunging at me, fists flailing. I didn’t realise he was trying to get away from the several thousands pressing behind him. He was only there to `show sympathy with the dead of the weekend before in Londonderry`. But I didn’t know that in the heat of the battle, which scared the shit out of me.
Stet: 1972 actually, but it seems a whole lot longer.
You have certainly done the full monty in emerging from under your stone, JuliaM.
There is no doubting the future preference to see you clothed.
MTG, I can’t even begin to fathom what that means!
If you’re wondering if I’ve become some kind of full-on police sympathiser, worry no more.
I simply call things as I see thrm, rather than (like Peter above) relying on a simple parameter of ‘police bad, everyone else good’.
On these occasions, the police have held the line against serious people intent on serious mayhem, and I thank them for it. As a result, we are less likely to have a country where mob-rule dictates our laws…
Julia, that is nonsense. That is not what I think at all!
I’ll send you a complementary Zimmer Baton for the 1872 gaff Hoggie! No doubt if we went back that far, we’d know who Jack the Ripper was! Difficult on the ground. I’d express my thanks to 10,000 steel workers at Shotton who didn’t tread me and my tutor constable into the ground and instead shared their butties and flasks with us whilst on mutual aid.
Structural changes to police and society, I’m afraid Julia, which leaves a soggy mess to get on with.
One typo due to not being able to find my reading glasses and I’m villified – what chance do the poor buggers batoning(sic) down the hatches in Parliament Square have? 😉
On a more serious note, the incredible incident that one of your commenters (Mr Reynolds) described above and in his own blogpost, where his lawyer son had to put himself between 8 year old children and the Met mounted branch charge and got beaten for his act of bravery, raises some really serious issues. In all the demo’ I attended in central London that turned violent, I never encountered kids so incredibly young, exposed to such danger. I do hope his son reports this in detail, time, locus and gives investigators the chance to scrutinise the cctv which is extensive in that area. If he knows the i/d of them or their parents, then I would argue that apart from him being charged down and beaten in an act of selfless bravery, there is a serious breach of S1 and others of the C&YP Act of parents or guardians exposing children to such danger and would urge him, or someone else, whoever they may be, who is aware of this micro-incident within the bigger one, to report this immediately.
Couldn’t agree more with you. Outrageously irresponsible.
I leave my reading glasses attached to the JD supply Hog – I always know where that is! The cats are terrified when I reach for my varifocals – I no longer need to wear them, they just automatically get from under my feet when I pick them up!
Good point on the kids – though I hope I would have acted as Peter’s son did in the trying circumstances.