Police now swoop on non-seat-belted pensioner menace with a vengeance! 14 minute within speed limit car chases, a rush to the door to smash window without trying door, leap onto stationary bonnet and then drag old dodderer claiming to need heart medicine across road. You couldn’t make it up! Two day trial? Has anyone got to ask how many of our 11% visible cops are on these duties yet?
Incidentally, Sky seem to have edited the video to make it look slightly worse. The pensioner may engage in dangerous hand-slapping with the arresting officer.
Of course you never intended officers of the rampantly insane variety being issued with firearms, did you Inspector Gadget?
You did? What is that you say? The old codger was begging for bullets and if you had unlimited firearms, unregistered ones could be secreted in police vehicles ready to plant on a body?
Is that REALLY what Gadget is saying? OMG!
I don’t think IG means any of that to happen MTG- what’s not on offer is any means to stop those who would. What’s worrying is that cops should behave in this daft way – any cops – and our lack of appreciation as to why. Hardly anyone withstands adrenaline well, and there are deep ‘noble cause’ problems too. I actually sympathise with the officers and the old codger – how the hell did something like this get so out of hand?
“How the hell did something like this get so out of hand?
One guess – male pride and testosterone?
You are all so right…
We should not chase anyone in case we injure them or hurt someone else.
We shouldn’t arrest people either. We should send them a ticket in the post and if they don’t turn up in court just forget about it.
We shouldn’t wear body armour, carry stick/CS or taser – it scares people and stops them approaching us…
We shouldn’t prosecute people for assault police as we probably generated the reason why we were assaulted…
We would then not be in the media for brutalising poor oaps…
Did you know he sped away from the stop check?
Did you know he clipped an officer too?
It’s ok though, he is ok-just in case you were worried…
No, you should do all those things.
But you should also match your response to the threat, you should ensure that the red mist doesn’t overcome your training and above all, you should remember that your actions will be viewed in the cold light of day by law-abiding people who wonder why the ‘can’t be bothered’ response seems to be all they get when they report a crime, yet you can apparently summon up the enthusiasm to go tearing around country lanes to trap a dangerous non-compliant numberplate owner…
You did read the bit that the driver hit a Police officer?
Presumably that action requires no response ?
How do you stop someone that refuses to stop without stinger?
What are we? Police? Or law enforcement administrators?
ACO; ‘how the hell did something like this get so out of hand?’
There we have it in one, I’m afraid. This is exactly why I am opposed to the routine arming of police. I do see Gadget’s point about facing armed criminals, and I do have concerns for the police in those situations, but it is the threat to normally law-abiding people that worries me intensely.
Me too dickiebo… If it was up to me we wouldn’t carry sticks, cs or cuffs… Or wear armour.
We can’t have police being able to defend themselves can we? Since our police are made up of, in the main, psychotic, mop hating, murdering, bullied as children seeking revenge, wife beating nutters-arming them would bf crazy…
Also look at the training! Even police in Somalia are better trained than our morons – they have guns so they must be eh? And since people go abroad to places like Poland, France and the USA for holidays -thier cops are more trustworthy too eh? They must be they are armed too!!!
In fact- let’s just sack the lot ! Imagine how much money we will save ?
How many peoples lives will be saved? Brilliant !!!
You’re getting a bit carried away – as usual, claiming all those silly things. The FACT remains that an awful lot of cops just are not fit to carry guns. As for other countries – well, those countries ARE different to us in many ways. Possibly the western countries you mention simply recruit better calibre officers? Je ne sais pas!
I’ve read claims that he ‘bumped’ an officer. I haven’t seen it. It’s either not on the video, or has been edited out.
If the latter, then surely the police could release the full tape, for everyone to see, to back up their officers?
Would it matter if he ran him over ?
Who cares? You lot?
I mean the court of public opinion has judged…
Yes, of course it would matter if he ran him over! But he didn’t, did he?
Look, I understand the kind of blind, unthinking tribalism that makes so many commenters reluctant to criticise ‘their own’, no matter how evident the footage of wrongdoing is. I’m merely pointing out to you just how counter-productive it is.
Dickiebo’s point is a valid one – no-one who hasnt already bought into an agenda will have any problems with officers doing what these did to a teenage TWOCer who has just done 90mph through a town centre on the wrong side of the road and violently resisted arrest. In fact, I’ll hold your coat for you, if you want!
Note that it is not the first time that this ‘frail pensioner’ has had an encounter with the law over traffic matters:
Sorry Shijuro you are going over the top on this one, he was cleared of failing to stop after an accident at court (No public opinion)
While it looks like he should not have been on the road in the first place, at least this one made it passed the CPS allowing allegations on both sides to be aired.
Carried away? Well I don’t want to rain on you’d parade boys and girls but…
We don’t pursue that many people anymore-due to the public outcry fuelled by media whitch hunts ended up with a pursuit policy now that prohibits about 90% of the police from doing it.
As to weaons, a significant amount if officers i know have never drawn weapons-not because they didn’t need them- but because they don’t want to be investigated for two years by psd…
I make it no secret that I don’t carry them at all- I carry my cuffs and armour-but that’s it. I don’t carry cs or baton and I have refused taser and public order training.
Why? Because drawing and using them just puts you ‘offside’ for two years… And I won’t put my wife through that again – worrying if we were to loose our home..
I have reached a point now where I don’t want to do the job anymore- the job itself is fine- but people like you lot that pick, pick, pick apart every footstep have basically imasculated the average officer.
Most of us are scared to draw batons etc… We would rather take the beating than put our families through that bull…
If I was the gaffer I would stop ALL pursuits/make officers/hand in all weapons/firearms and say to the general public- you got what you wanted-over to you.
Our point is; We DO want you to do the job – and we WILL support you. However, what we do NOT support is when you turn against the very public that you are supposed to protect.
You can – in my opinion – shoot as many armed criminals as you like; taser as many vicious thugs as you like, chase as many criminals as you like; and you’ll get MY complete support. However, use those weapons and tactics against the law-abiding majority, and you have lost my support.
You are making the assumption that the ‘law abiding majority’ dint commit crime… They do. You also infer that because they are not habitual criminals they shouldn’t be policed?
Wrong on both counts.
You commit a crime, I arrest you. I make no diffential between the poor; the rich; the smart; the stupid; the criminal and the non-criminal. That was my oath- to treat people the same…
You act as if the law only applies to criminals-it don’t… It’s for everyone.
‘You commit a crime I arrest you’! THAT’ll be the day. If you did, we would not be here today talking about your shortcomings! ‘Tis far, far easier for you to arrest a law-abiding citizen, than to arrest the REAL villains/nuisances/ etc, who would take you on!
Well, you wouldn’t be the first so-called, law abiding citizen I have arrested…
I have received far less respect from the so called ‘law abiding’ than from the usual suspects.
I have lost count of the gob-fulls i have had off middle-class people that have fell foul of the law. Some of them have started before I have even spoken!
I try to treat everyone the same.
Often, I hear the cry, ‘what!? you cant arrest me? I have just had an argument on my wife! you are arresting me for that?’
I have dealt with a lot of middle-class criminals in my role as a Sex Offender manager.
Oh, if the Police are so crap, how come the prisons are overflowing and the crime rate is the lowest since the 80’s?
‘……..the crime rate is the lowest since the 80′s?’
Er, NO. YOUR crime rate! Certainly NOT the real crime rate. Yet even more reason not to trust our police.
Ha ha I’m sorry dicki I hadn’t realised until now you are s police hater… I. shall bother you no more…
Shij; I am grateful for even a small mercy.
Due to the media witch hunt that follows everytime a Police officer looks at somen sternly (god help you if you put hands on people or draw a baton) it is almost at the point the leftie brigade want.
An imasculated police-that won’t do anything to stop them.
I am, of course as a public servant, all for it.
I thought the pursuit policy we adopted that stops me (by CC order) from pursuing people was the greatest contribution to Police safety since the introduction of body armour.
I welcome the fear that prevents people like me from carrying and using CS or batons (I don’t mention firearms because that’s just a silly job to do-I mean, who wants to be suspended and face manslaughter charges for protecting people?).
If I don’t use my PPE then my chances of not being suspended or put ‘offside’ by PSD reduces almost to zero.
So, we now arrive at my actual usefulness to the members of public… Not very… is one thought…
Good for me though- I get to go home alive- and with an increased chance of getting a pension.
Win, win? For me..
Not for you ladies and gentlemen because you now have an officer that drives below the speed limit when you are hearing burglars in your downstairs at 3am; an officer that, having arrived at the on premises burglary doesn’t hoof the door open-oh no … I wait for an appropriately train officer with a door ‘enforcer’; an officer that just makes a note of the time when he sees your stolen car whizz by at 5mph over the limit (don’t radio up either- if I do and that persons crashes or kils someone-I am in the IPCC frame-no thanks); an officer that drives to a different area when there is a riot in progress (not trained-and after the G20 I will stay that way) and an officer that just backs off from a domestic dispute until other officers arrive to assist (I would follow me if I were you)…
No offence- but it’s what you wanted… You got it… Now deal with it.
If that IS so, then you really are unfit for purpose, just as I said!
Yes .. I believe we are… But that’s life eh ?
You got what you wanted …
You boast on another blog how your ability to read has kept you free of motoring convictions.
This ability is less evident when you render futile all attempts to secure your understanding of most citizens’ expectations of police conduct.
I await Gadget’s revelations on the old codger’s previous convictions for tzwoc (taking zimmers without consent)and stick waving at young people. This is definitely an incident where apologies all round and an investigation into what spooked the rabbit may well have been appropriate.
Not a boast sir, a statement of fact.
The problem with mops expectations of Police conduct is that it varies…
Even on this blog entry… Julia states that we could behave in a violent and operessive way as our notional subject was a ‘twoker’ driving at 90 etc without seeing that she is suggesting that we break the golden rule- that we treat all people the same?
That’s the kernal eh? We hear it all the time… ‘why not catch real criminals instead of a poor old pensioner?’
By real criminals you mean proletariat that drive off, fail to stop and non-stop Police officers?
People that break the law are not criminals? Only those chavy/twokers eh?
The golden rule you refer to is utter b*****ks. No, you should not treat all people the same.
As I said before, you should match response to situation. The actions of this driver did not warrant that response.
Thanks for the missing piece Rosco. I hit some trauma related states and might act like this – but fortunately usually just go to bed. Do we know if he is loopy?
I agree with dickiebo and others. Shijuro you are going over the top and not thinking clearly. Depression and stress perhaps? On here yo say you have a wife, but on your blog you imply you are divorced, and on Gadget’s a while ago, you claimed to be a ‘single parent’. I think you are confused, unless it’s somehow all three!
NO ONE has got what they ‘wanted’, not the police, nor the public. A rather negative influence in the previous government appears to have got what they wanted, which was the undermining of the police force, and an army of state ‘snoopers’ to replace them, and create lots of files on people full of tittle tattle and nonsense.
You also claimed on your blog recently, that Allcoppedout ‘et al’ are ‘anti police’. Not so from my point of view. I’m certainly not anti police. I am ‘anti’ anyone who behaves like a thug and who deliberately harms vulnerable people, be they MoP, or officers.
Wow brilliant lines of deduction there intel: how could I claim to be married/divorced and a parent all at the same time?
Err… By marrying again?
I was a single parent-before I remarried…
Depressed? I suppose I might be. But I don’t think so-fed up? Oh yes…
The public want two opposing things even julia got her pants in a twist over this one-on this blog :
they want police to be tough on criminals-but not on them, no sir ‘cos they are not criminals-even when they do criminal stuff…
They want thier police to be fair to all-until they treat them the same as a criminal.
They think the law only applies to criminals (and the police) but not to them- this is the cause of the cry of ‘go and arrest criminals not us poor motorists’.
No intel- the mops wanted this watered down police – because they are too stupid to see that changes applied to small sections of the police affect the whole.
Thanks for the concern though…
I don’t carry ppe… Because hard experience has taught me that using it -even lawfully- just puts you in the naughty corner for a couple of years-where you and your wife are wondering if you have a roof over your head…
I have been looking for a job for the last 18-months because this is not the job I joined 20-years ago and you are definiately not the same public…
Not the same public?
The public are the same but, every worm can turn. And you, I’m afraid, have really got our backs up.
Not the same job?
No. Precisely. Because it is what you have made it!
I suspect the ‘defensive hostility’ of some police officers stems from the same roots as that of the criminal antisocial scum Dickie.
Of course it’s not… Nothing is the same 20-years ago…
The police don’t set the rules for the police… Gov do that …
You really wouldn’t want a police with it’s own rule making body…
I tell you what has changed… Society… We now have a sizeable slice of it: rich and poor; criminal and lawful that have never heard the word-NO!
Then up pops coppers that say the naughty word:
No you can’t drive at any speed you like;
No you can’t smash up soneones property;
No you can’t steal from others;
No you can’t tell me to fcuk off.
This is at the heart of the problem…
Julia was savaged on gadgets blog -a little unfairly I suspect- but I see why…
Using hindsight to criticise is just unfair… We have no such luxury… We must make our decisions and appriasals in real time…
I ask you all the same questions:
how do you stop a large 4×4 safely when the driver don’t want to stop?
Having stopped it, how do you prevent it going again?
How do you get someone out of the car when they don’t want to get out?
In the USA they would have likely put their guns on him, assaulting police with a deadly weapon (a car) is taken seriously there, presumably because they value their officers.
The not hearing the word ‘no’ is easy to agree with. We have a society that can’t even deal with noise nuisance and that inflicts recidivist antisocial criminals on decent people who have little recourse in law to protect the peace and sanctity of their own lives. I saw this 35 years ago pretty regularly. The issue has something to do with the way no one will take responsibility and the collapse of informal discipline. The ‘answer’ is ‘large sticks we need more discipline in society, but this brings its own problems – stretching back at least to dafter aspects of Plato.
Up the road, a decent enough guy has tried to sell his house, but is now renting it out. It’s gone, via some support from decent parents and more from social services,to a druggie woman with 3 kids and a live-in-scumbag who burgled most of the houses round here years ago and who is now a prolific borrower-from-shops. Other such scum are now visiting. It will end in tears – I suspect with an eviction enforced by ‘large sticks’ after the house is trashed. Decent people should be able to stop stuff like this, but who will be first, given complaint will not be secure, and retaliation inevitable? There is something dreadful in both wanting a society which stops these scum being around decent people because this intrudes into personal lives in ways we’d rather not, and the persistence of the invasion of others human rights by the scum activity.
Also please remember:
he decided not to wear his belt (I personally think adults should but it’s the law)…
He decided to drive off from a lawful stop;
He decided not to stop;
he decided not to open the door.
I suspect he would have had a ticket and been on his way … But he chose not too..
He also has form for similar, but once the molehill rolled to mountain, everyone seems to have been consumed in the momentum.
All true- the questions still stand:
how do you stop a car that won’t stop?
How do you prevent it fro leaving?
How do you get somebody out of a car when they don’t want to?
Still no replies from julia or intel…
What more do you expect me to say Shijuro?
You have voiced your opinion. I voiced mine.
I do have other things to do, other than argue with someone who thinks he is the only one who is right
all the time and the sole authority upon all subjects.
However I will say again, that NOBODY has got what they wanted, not police, not the public. This country has been well and truly screwed up over the past few decades.
Read my comment again please Shijuro, and calm down.
And thanks for clearing up the confusion about your status, married, divorced, single parent, married again.
Here in this very blog is the answer !
What happened to those officers that arrested, put before a court Mr Whatley?
Suspended!!! Looking at the sack!!!
If anything shows how the SMT and public that does.
If Mr Wheatly had done that trick in the USA he would likely have been shot- for assaulting an officer with a deadly weapon- a car…
They value officers over there…
There may be elements in government and society who
don’t value police officers, but I’m sure that a
greater number do value them and the job they do.
If you are committed to keeping the bad guys in check
then I certainly value you and other officers who do.
“Look SNGD, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.”
Lol melv… A quote from 2001: a space odessy… The bit where HAL is trying to stop Bowman from disconnecting him…
Now you really HAVE gone up in my estimentation!
Humbled to have risen in your estimentititation, Shijuro.
OK Shijuro. You are clearly a very passionate person who is being driven to distraction by the stress of the job and ALL the crap that goes with it. I agree with you in principle, that officers shouldn’t be facing the prospects of getting the sack for doing their jobs. But he was an OAP and probably a bit scared by the actions of those officers, which as it was reported, did sound rather over the top. The driver was probably stressed and stress does strange things to people and their thinking processes. People make mistakes.
Perhaps the old guy thought he was about to get beaten up. It does happen, as we saw recently with the case of the special constable [Lightfoot] in Manchester, although that was a much younger victim/naughty person.
The cases of Ian Tomlinson and Jean Charles de Menezes certainly have not helped in the public’s perception of police officers. Police Officers CAN be very intimidating and quite scary Shijuro. Some really ARE on a power trip.
The public, I imagine, want to feel safe and that they will not get beaten up or killed by the police being overly aggressive towards them. That desire is not unreasonable on the part of the public Shijuro, and nor is their desire that the police WILL catch and deal with the bad guys, be they MoP’s OR police officers. When a few officers behave badly it affects the whole force and their image in the eyes of the media and the public.
The IPCC is there to act as a control over cops doing exactly as they please, however ACO thinks that the IPCC are pretty useless in many cases. I don’t know enough about them to form an opinion on that issue, but the families of two men who died at the hands of the police, claim cover ups and ‘whitewash’, quite rightly and I can sympathise with them. Cops make mistakes like everyone else and they are not perfect all the time, just like everyone else. This is part of being human Shijuro.
You assume that I am ‘the public’ and am not the same as I was 20 years ago, and nor is the job. Well….the police are the public and the public are the police,
and no I’m not the same person I was 20 years ago. I would hope that being older, I am now a bit wiser!
You imply in your comment on here, on this very blog, that JuliaM ‘does criminal stuff’.
I hope that you were not making an assumption that I ‘do criminal stuff’ Shijuro, because you assume that I’m a MoP
As it happens, I agree that to stop a car the cops had to use the stinger. But what I don’t agree with you about is that the public have got what they wanted, and I most certainly haven’t, not for a long time.
However, I would hope and trust that IF my life were in danger, that the police would do their very best to protect me from harm, because that is their job and what they swore an oath to do – to protect life Shijuro…..
Because I do value the work the police do to help people.
But from reading your comments, I get the impression that YOU wouldn’t bother to help save my life if necessary.
Sure I would try to save you… I would drive within the speed limit though and when I got there don’t expect taser, cs or baton – cos I dont carry them…
I won’t put my livelyhood in the line again-I know I am not thanked or supported for taking risks…
Checkout my blog for some recent examples of why…
You say, Cops make mistakes like everyone else and they are not perfect all the time, just like everyone else. This is part of being human Shijuro’…
I agree we do… But we pay for them with our jobs, homes and futures.
I watched COPS yesterday, they had a fail to stop too, a man on a bike… He lost it and crashed into an oncoming vehicle…. He wasnt well and needed hospital treatment and was resus’d in the ambo.
Their gaffer said, “this is what happens if you run from the police… It often ends in tragedy…” no psd, no ipcc because the onus is on the OFFENDER notbyhd police that risk their lives to stop the behaviour and arrest!!’
here you would be suspended and sacked…
Hence why most of us drive around like we ate asleep… You don’t want to be in a pol-acc here … It’s a world of poo for a couple of years…,
The IPCC is a disaster and we should have seen it coming. Part of the problem in this cycle is that the cops create a panic about not being able to do their jobs under proper scrutiny and any ‘watchdog’ created gets its balls cut off. This has happened over and over again. The view is PSDs vary from bad to fair and the IPCC is worse.
What your average decent copper doesn’t realise is they would be better off with a civilian-based discipline system -the current version merely protects bad cops and incompetent management. I suspect this suits the politicians.
You won’t find me walking past a cop needing help, but the idea they do a good job collectively is now a farce. To a man they cannot speak out, yet repeatedly talk of their heroism and emphasise the lunacy of an untrustworthy public. They need shaking out, but it’s been proved over and over we use the wrong people to do that. Failing forces are full of Gadget and Shijuro talk.
“They need shaking out, but it’s been proved over and over we use the wrong people to do that. Failing forces are full of Gadget and Shijuro talk.”
Profoundly true, ACO and the ambitious already have the scent of an approaching power strip in the nostrils. A penny for the thoughts of the worst mind in a political, armed and subversive organisation?
First- isn’t the IPCC a civvie body?
My fear and Gadgets, is that aggressive, public pandering, politically driven and minority pressure group driven discipline will end up emasculating the Police.
It has already achieved this to a certain extent.
Look at the uproar about Police pursuits and Police officers driving to jobs at high speed… Now we are in a situation that almost all Police officers dont/cant pursue and don’t break the speed limit to jobs.
I remind you that you are on the other end of this… it could be your home being burgled-your wife and kids in bed, you car that is being stolen.
For me, if you are ok with that, then it’s ok with me. Safer for me as driving at speed is easily the most dangerous thing we do…
I suspect that for the vast majority of the MOPS out there – it isn’t… but they are silent when cops are hammered by PSD/IPCC.
Only once in living memory can I recall was public uproar when a copper smacked a little thug around the ear and was charged with assault and was up for the sack, remember?
Now what other country imprisons its officers for trying to get to a job quickly?
In the USA, they have a different (and superior) mind-set. They don’t go after officers (unless they do something really crazy) they put the emphasis on the CRIMINAL. In pursuits the CRIMINAL is at fault for NOT STOPPING. Not the officer chasing him/her, they are trying to stop that criminal!
WE have got it MASSIVELY wrong here.
As to discipline bodies:
I wouldn’t mind to have ONE reviewing/discipline body instead of:
IPCC- Independent Police complaints…
HMI-Her Maj Insp …
Thats without trial by media.
You want it every which way and loose Shij. The prisons are full, so much so chronic recidivists are not in them. Crime has fallen? Didn’t some vile combination of ZPFNulabour and bent SMT bonus-taking rimmers fix the figures? IPCC civilian? Absolutely, so civilian they don’t do anything unless invited in and have almost no one who could investigate bent cops. The process needs to be civilianised in terms of decisions to investigate and public scrutiny. Cops are so crap they dare not ask those who can say this from experience directly – the victims of crime and so-called antisocial behaviour. You conflate the need for policing to be done properly with the paranoid delusion that any policing is positive.
What I suspect is at work is the same kind of insular nonsense that screwed our manufacturing industry. False delusions on the quality of service. One reviewing body is a good idea – what kind of decently run organisation would have three? Or dozens as is actually the case?